Author Topic: Smart City Brake Support fault  (Read 111 times)

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Offline Mazda6SportNav19

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Smart City Brake Support fault
« on: February 11, 2020, 04:01:37 pm »
Have 2019 6 GT Nav 2.5 no dash warnings dealer says no codes but smart city braking support does not work.

UK spec car dealer stumped Mazda_UK waste of time just expect us to visit dealer time after time to try to resolve, sometimes really wish had not switched brands from VW.  Anyone else had this issue? Drivers could be thinking all safety features are working when actually they might not be.

Another heads up, told by service manager Mazda UK will not entertain goodwill under £250 they expect dealer to pay but, if you have not bought the vehicle from your dealer they will not offer goodwill because they will lose money, Seat brand goodwill is the best he told me, dealers have authority to offer it for any age Seat model.

More Information;

Hi, I used to see the Brake Brake Brake warning when cars were turning left and I was close but the brakes never worked.

I had not seen those warnings for a while, I was actually discussing with a friend, so I decided to check. I approached vehicles and nothing happened I had to brake very quickly. I decided to try with cardboard boxes in front and behind. In reverse, the brakes applied but only after hitting the boxes, going forward just ran straight through the boxes, good job it was not a human!

The dealer tested the system by driving towards a stationary bus. 1st time it worked and stopped the car. 2nd time nothing, 3rd time nothing, 4th time delayed but stopped the car but too close for comfort, about 1 inch from bumpers. They are now going to recalibrate the cameras and sensors to see if that makes any difference, hit and miss rectification really. No-fault codes or warning lights.

Funnily enough, today on my journey back, the B. B. B warning did come on quite a distance back from the front vehicle. Only once though. Then I noticed because I am a light brake person, I like to slow down well in advance, the brakes were being applied more aggressively to slow the car. This happened 3 times but then stopped working when following vehicles again. It's a very strange thing I think it's software fault and Mazda doesn't do software in house so it may never be fixed.


Mazda just expects me to visit the dealer at my time and cost to try to resolve the issue, not a great thing when one has spent £31500 on a vehicle, Mazda service in UK sucks. I am seriously thinking of going to the press and motoring magazines to warn others to check the systems before it's too late.


Update 11.2.20

Vehicle recalibration is done 10.2.20 camera seeing all objects but SCBS still not activating at all. Mazda denies there is a fault as there is no fault light or code This statement from them "If there is a fault and the system did not operate because of no driver input, then the car will have a collision and damage may occur" My response to that statement, you are saying the diagnostics are not reporting any fault, therefore, there is no fault but we have proved there is a fault. Diagnostics are 100% infallible.

The dealer service manager confirmed to 3 people its not working after road testing with me.

Mazda's own demonstration video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgSQfs--sDk&app=desktop  supports the facts;
 the vehicle will detect and, more importantly, "as you apply the brake pedal the system HELPS to apply the brakes firmly and quickly to assist" refutes the statements made by people at Mazda "if you have your foot on the brakes the system thinks you are in control and will not activate"

This dealer video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4ArOP9p1Rk  actually shows staff testing driving a vehicle towards a fence and the vehicle reacts.

Our options now, going to decide to either sell the vehicle or get a professional inspection report done by the AA to take further action.

Any further opinions or advice welcome thank you.



 



Offline apav

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Re: Smart City Brake Support fault
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2020, 11:33:15 am »
Read some old posts about this issue. It is very common. The warnings you get are not related to one particular problem. There are different solutions to apply.

Why did they try to charge you £250 for a car under warranty?

When you mention that you braked but the car did not, how did you manage to stop?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tkw_v1VrUHk

Do you try to test this system?

There are many videos online, even from dealers doing the box test. They are quite boring. All of them fail at the start. Then they do something and it works. It has to do with the settings on the screen. Maybe the manual has instructions on how to use it. Most of them try to make it work and it does not. Then they follow the manual and it works. So even if the system works, it requires some user training.

Also, you should consider this system like the ABS or the airbags. You never know when they are going to activate. Some times you have the expectation that they will activate but they do not. Is this a system fault? Is this a system limitation? Is this how the system works?

In this line of argument, you have to consider the outcome. For example, you brake, but the ABS does not engage or is not sufficient enough and you crash. It will be hard to prove that the ABS failed. It will be hard to prove that the ABS was not efficient.

This auto brake system is something very similar. You cannot replicate its deployment. You may have an accident and your airbags deploy. You then have another accident and the airbags do not deploy.

Whether the ABS or the airbags worked as they should, or they failed, is not something that should concern you. Your focus should be, did I manage to walk away from the wreck? Then everything is fine. The insurance companies will deal with the rest and you may get some money back if it is found that you did everything right, e.g. kept some safe distances.

It seems that your car has this auto brake system. It is good that you want to make sure it works. You should cooperate with the dealer and pass the tests to make sure it works.

But if it works, never ever rely on it for your own safety. Is that what you meant about cars turning left and you let the car decide to brake or not? If this is what you mean, you take risks for nothing. If you had a car with no auto brake, would you react in the same way to the cars turning left? If you lifted off or braked, then you should do the same with your auto brake car as well. The auto brake is not there for you to change your driving style.

The only change in driving style required is because of the ABS operation. When the ABS is activated, you should keep braking like in an non ABS car, you would stop braking and start again. The ABS does this for you and in order to make it efficient, you should keep braking.

But for the auto brake system, you should not change your driving style. There must be some legal warning in the manual about that. Make sure that the dealer will not trap you through their lawyers in some reckless driving style and then claim that you are the problem.

What you should question yourself is that even if the system works and stops, why don’t you brake by yourself and maintain distances like you would do with a normal car? Imagine that the dealer gives you written evidence that the system works. How will you react if you have an accident? Will you rely on the dealer evidence? Or will you drive safely to avoid accidents?

You have no fault codes or warnings from the system. You allow the dealer to test the car against a stationary bus. It worked first time but then it failed. What would you do if one of these repeat tests fails and your expensive car was crashed? Will they fix it for free? Will you be happy to drive a brand new accident repair car which the insurance may write it off because of the damage and/or cost?

Have you bought the car with cash? Get something in writing that the system works, reset it to factory settings and then drive without considering that the system exists.

Is it on finance? You could then consult the finance company for advice making a claim that you do not trust the car.

Is it a company car? You could consult your company and explain that you are not happy to work with this car because of these problems.

When you mention that you get a brake warning, how the dealer finds no warnings as you mentioned earlier?

The more aggressive braking may be from the new settings the dealer did. He may overdid it to keep you happy that the system works. By making it brake very early, he hoped that you would notice it and then be happy with the repair.

If that was my car, I would just ask them to make sure that the system works, hardware, software, sensors, and anything else involved, and then reset it to the factory settings and not some kind of manual configuration. The factory settings must be somewhere in the middle.

The car should not brake too early because you will be in danger to the drivers following. The car should not brake too late because you will crash.

Yes Mazda will always send you to the dealer. If you keep going to the dealer and nothing improves, you can ask them to return the car for good and get your money back as you tried again and again and there is no solution.

All companies will do the same, redirecting you to the dealer, regardless of the car value. The companies just do finance. The dealers do hand over the physical car and sometimes they do warranties and services. You need the dealer for these things.

You can make your story public. Others have done that on forums. Most of the people do not really worry about such things because they rent the cars for a couple of years and then return them. Without no warnings to prevent you from using the car, or any wrong found, most of the drivers will keep paying the finance until they get another car.

What does the dealer mean that the system will be not activated if the driver does not provide input? Is this an auto save system that requires no input from the driver? Is this a contradiction for needing such system then?

I do not think the diagnostics are the problem. I think the sensor should be calibrated, remain clean, etc, as per factory settings, and then you have to follow the manual and do repeat efforts to make it work.

The reality is that all these systems are just so primitive that takes some time to make them work. It is not like a light switch at home that it can be turned on and off and the result is 100% accurate. If the home light switch was like these systems, then you would turn it on and it would not always turn on but after some efforts, it would light.

For example the second generation cars can reset the service interval and calibrate the fuel injectors by using a wire in the engine fuse box. You insert the wire in an empty fuse position and then ground it to the car and it should work. But it does not work like the home light switch. Some times you have to try again and again.

I think something like this is happening with the auto brake. It is a zoom zoom car at the end of the day. It has some passions.

It seems that you got 2 conflicting statements from the dealer that you need to apply the brakes but also that if you apply the brakes, the system will deactivate. You should insist to reset the system and return it to the factory settings. At least then you will have a safe start.

The last video you uploaded seems to be the right operation.

My guess is that the AA will not find any problems. Their inspections are limited to very basic things that exist to all cars. Such auto brake is just a niche feature to some cars. There is not even an MOT test for it.

You can sell the car but it sounds like you are a private buyer. You are going to lose lots in this way. You could try to return the car to the dealer and get your money back but this sounds very unlikely to happen if they insist that the car is good.

Go to Autotrader and do a car search.

Brand new Mazda 6 are for sale from £20K. You have paid £31K. This is extreme money because it is 50% from what another similar 6 costs.

For not a lot more than the £31K, you can buy one of the bigger cars like an A6, 5, E class. Check the auto trader again.

The problem with the 6 is that you can buy a 2019 model for £15K or a 2018 model for £12K. The 2017 models start from £7K.

Consider these prices to the £31K your car costs. If you decide to sell, you will lose a lot.

So the question is, did you buy the 6 because of the auto brake system? Does this system make you safer?

If the dealer says it is fine, even if you cannot activate it, is it worthy losing a lot of money for this system? Consider this in the context of having already overpaid £11K to buy the £31K car instead the £20K from auto trader.

I think you should take some time off to think about these issues. Then return to the dealer, do another check, reset the system, and consider what you want to do next. If money is not an issue, you can always sell and buy another brand.