Author Topic: Lambda sensor or DPF  (Read 592 times)

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Offline Gloss123

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Lambda sensor or DPF
« on: May 14, 2018, 06:54:09 pm »
Hi guys would really be interested in anyone's experience, knowledge on my issue please. Bought a 63 plate sport Nav 2.2 diesel, 175 hp in November last year. Lovely car really impressed as it's my first mazda, 73 k on clock fully service history. Problem started last week, just had it's recent service a week ago, then I got engine management light come on on Friday evening, didn't go on any major trips during weekend and no issues with the car driving. Monday morning driving to work DPF soot level high error message came up. Stopped car rang my mechanic and on his advice took it for e spin up m6 for 45 minutes in fourth averaging about 60mph. On way back error message came up DPF needs inspecting!  From bad to worse in 2 hours and the first ever messages that I have had come up regarding the DPF. Car went into mechanics day after, he cleared the DPF  messages but couldn't clear the engine management light, because it said primary oxygen sensor fault, because of this fault he couldn't force the car to regen. I am now having trouble where to get the lambda sensor from, anyone got any ideas as no of seems to stock it. Don't want to Say through more with Mazda. Has anyone else had this issue. I am hoping the oxygen sensor is what has tripped the DPF errors, as they hadn't appeared before. I'm hoping the DPF isn't shot. I could understand if I had been driving round ignoring the error message for a few months, but to go from bad to worse in two hours seems like a glitch caused by this lambda oxygen sensor.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 06:57:03 pm by Gloss123 »

Offline apav

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Re: Lambda sensor or DPF
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2018, 08:54:32 am »
Is this a third generation car? The second generation cars has a multi functioning DPF light that indicated the service interval, the damaged timing chain and the DPF problem all at one go and you had to guess what was what.

It is super easy to block the DPF. It only takes a couple of thousands miles of proper abuse and it is blocked. But if you have rooted the problem to the sensor, go for it. But it does not sound like that the garage is convinced. If the sensor causes the engine management light, then there is a possibility that affects the DPF but is this the case?

Offline Gloss123

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Re: Lambda sensor or DPF
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2018, 04:09:41 pm »
Hi Apav

Thanks for your comments, Im assuming 3rd Gen as its a 2013 plate (63) and VIN is JMZGJ692621140783.
There doesn't appear to be a DPF warning light, just a message in the digital display saying "Soot levels in DPF too high" and "DPF needs inspection" but no dedicated DPF light like the engine management light has.

I think myself and the garage are assuming this as there was only a 25 mile journey between the engine management light coming on Friday afternoon and then first DPF message coming on on the Monday morning, then a further 60 miles on M6 doing a steady 60 in fourth to try and get it to enter a regen cycle before the second DPF message came up. All this seems way to quick to get a first DPF message then the second, so it would seem very bad luck to have it knackered in 3 days and 75 miles.

Our problem know is trying to get hold of a new lambda sensor, no one seems to stock them, and those that do want a part number which we dont know, and Mazda wont tell me the part number over the phone they want to charge me to take it in and have a look. Which I am resisting at the moment as I think its a dam cheek to be charged £80 for a part number code.


Offline apav

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Re: Lambda sensor or DPF
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2018, 09:22:02 am »
Yes it says GJ on the VIN, so it is the third generation.

As it is the engine management light that came up first and the scanner recognises this as this primary oxygen sensor, discuss this with the dealer and ask them whether that could fix the problem and how much the sensor costs. The dealer may say that they do not know whether it is the sensor and they want to get paid for inspection but at least you will know how much it costs.

If you google Mazda 6 GJ primary oxygen sensor, there is a company selling them:

https://www.bestpartstore.co.uk/exhaust-system/oxygen-sensor/mazda/6-y2013

The most expensive is this one:

https://www.bestpartstore.co.uk/7563572-herthbuss-jakoparts-lambda-sensor

If I was you, I would ask the garage to remove the sensor, clean it, use contacts spray on the connections and try it again.

If there is no progress, you may need to buy the sensor and try it.

Check your manual what is the speed that you need to keep going to regenerate the DPF. In the second generation car, that is 25mph. Then compare your average speed on the trip computer. If that figure is higher, then you are doing well and it all seems to be down to the sensor especially if this is the first time the problem came up. You may have bought an ex-company that was driving all the time and now during these six months of ownership, you drive it differently. But then it is the DPF that should come up and not the sensor.

Offline Gloss123

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Re: Lambda sensor or DPF
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2018, 05:17:20 pm »
Great reply Apav, I appreciate your opinion and advice. I called the main dealer this morning, and they said there was no part listed as an oxygen sensor or lambda sensor. Apparently the DPF on my model is not in the exhaust line under the car, it's just next to the manifold. There are only 2 sensors, an air / fuel sensor after the DPF and a temp sensor  in the DPF. they told me to go back to my mechanic to find out which sensor the error code is pointing to to make sure I purchase the correct part, as they are none refundable.prices are £180 or £230 dependant on which one. I will keep you posted on how it turns out, as it's going to be useful for anyone else with the same problem.

Offline Gloss123

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Re: Lambda sensor or DPF
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2018, 12:43:49 pm »
Update on the DPF / Lambda sensor - I had another mechanic come out to look at the issue I had with my Mazda. He had just bought the latest diagnostic kit with latest software and got exactly the same reading as my last mechanics - heated oxygen sensor  position 1 bank 1, this didn't really help with my issue. I spoke to a number of diagnostic specialists that deal specifically with these cars, and to be honest they both said Mazda diesels are a nightmare! Apparently after market products don't like talking to Mazda software and that I was better going direct to Mazda for Mazda parts!!

Car went into Mazda last Wednesday, I still haven't got up off the floor yet!! Worst case scenario £3500 to fix. Apparently the inlet side of the engine is badly coked up and needs compression testing, stripping and de-coking so they can get the EMS error / light cleared, only then can they check on the state of the DPF and get this to force regen to see if it can be cleared!! I asked as to whether this was normal on this type of car as I had never heard of this happening before. The car had one previous owner that did motorway miles and had a genuine Mazda on line service history,and was this a design fault and would Mazda be willing to cover the costs? Up on asking this I was told that  all the services it had had were late (looked into this and the first service was late, and even though it had had regular services since then at the required mileage they were all out, according to Mazda, because the first one had been late!. So Mazda wriggling out of any corners I was trying to push them into, although I'm not sure why as it over 5 years old and out of warranty anyhow. Due to the fact that I have only had the car 6 months and have still got 2 and a half years to pay the HP off I have to remedy have bought many cars in these years, and am well aware that buying second hand is always fraut with unforeseeable problems, but to have to pay over a third of the value of a 5 year old car seems a little excessive!

Any how I am picking the car up tomorrow and taking it to have it Terracleaned to see if this can initially remove my coking (and price ) problem. I fear the DPF is shagged but maybe this will clean up the coke and EMS issue in order for Mazda to check the DPF.

 will keep you updated as and when.

Offline apav

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Re: Lambda sensor or DPF
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2018, 07:39:11 am »
This is not good at all.  :-\

A lot of the 2013 models had their engines rebuilt by Mazda. So they should be able to check and find out whether your car is within these cars. I do not think they will need to strip the engine to do a simple ECU scan and find out what is wrong with the sensor problem.

Their guess is that there are serious problems with the engine and it is not just the sensor playing up. The engine does not get dirty if there is no problem. So these cleaning services are not going to fix the problem, you can save the money. They may even make the problem worse by losing up the dirt and blocking up the engine.

Check other material online and you will find out that you are not the first one with this problem. For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ7W4ssxZZY

Even if you remove all this dirt, you have to tackle the source of the problem so that does not happen again.

The service history does not mean a lot nowadays. You take the car in, they replace the oil and they wash the car. It does not cover any preventive work, work that will save you on maintainance later. In addition to that, because the services are sensor based, if you drive the distance, they will extend them. So it is not that the previous driver missed the services but the car did not need one. The legal details of the warranty is another issue though.

If you cannot come to a deal with Mazda to fix the car for free or with a reasonable contribution, you may have to decide whether you are going to pay for the £3.5K repair. Basically you will have a rebuilt engine after that. I am not sure whether it is worthy.

The problem with the finance is that it makes everything expensive. So you only see your monthly cost but at some point you will have to pay the cost plus the finance profit. When a big repair comes up, it complicates the decisions as your monthly car cost is low but the repair cost is high.

Your car is already high on mileage and if you trade it in, it will be sold at the auction. So if you have no error codes flashing, you should consider a straight swap with another car and cut your losses. In that case, don't buy another car from an independent dealer because they source their stock from the auction and you will end up buying another similar car. Try a franchise and aim for a petrol car as you are not doing the mileage for a diesel.

There is a limit on how much mileage you do to help you decide whether the diesel is the right option. Check something like that:

https://www.whatcar.com/news/what-fuel-comparison-tool/

If your best fuel is petrol, which means you are not driving a lot, and if you have to pay £3.5 for the engine rebuilt, you could consider swapping the car for an "older" petrol from a franchise, possibly a smaller size like segment C to get a similar age car, that will not need an engine rebuilt, and will help you to clear out the finance. Once you are on the positive side again, you can buy another car if you want or keep building your fund for a rainy day.

You will need to start thinking strategically at this point as an engine rebuilt will not last for ever and as you are not doing high mileage, you may not need this type of car. People with the older generation cars, had their engine rebuilt from as low as 30K miles but then the problem came back. Their problem was a simple timing chain but in your engine, you will need a new crankshaft. There are people who had two timing chains but I am not sure if you can afford to rebuilt your engine twice.

Try the dealers to check what price they are willing to pay for your car. I had bought the car from Arnold Clark and they have an instant online valuation, you just need to provide your number plate and mileage:

https://www.arnoldclark.com/sell

They have a list of criteria at the end to check the condition of the car but there is nothing serious. They just need a car that drives. If you find another car you want to buy from them, they pay you this valuation, they deduct your current finance and they make another deal for cash or finance. You have to consider the £3.5K repair, the interest you have to pay for 2.5 years and the alternative option of getting a car by giving out yours and possibly become free of debt.

The best price you will get for your car is through a private sale but as the car is not right, don't go down that route. All part exchanges will pay you the auction value and not the market value. Check what is the market value of the car from something like Cazana:

https://cazana.com/uk

And then decide whether your repair is within this limit. If the repair cost is smaller than the difference between the market value and the auction value, you could repair it. Overall it is down to you to decide how much you can afford spending for the car. You have costs like the insurance and the tax that you cannot avoid and then have the cost of the car and the repairs. The insurance and the tax cost should be higher than the cost of the car and its repairs if you keep the car long enough. If you start repairing a car, then you have to keep it for a while for that repair to make sense economically.