Author Topic: Advice - 2019 6 Sport Nav+ - BOSE problems - thumping  (Read 815 times)

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Offline cwolf89

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Advice - 2019 6 Sport Nav+ - BOSE problems - thumping
« on: January 23, 2021, 09:36:05 am »
Hi everyone,

New to this forum, I was wondering if I can get some advice on how to proceed with my problem...

I bought a brand new 6 sport nav+ in December 2019, I got it for peanuts, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten a brand new one. It's the 2.0 petrol engine and generally speaking I'm fairly happy with it. There are some issues which shouldn't be there, like some cabin vibration at idle and clutch judder in first gear, but I'm hoping they'll go away once the parts bed in, I drove it less than 10k miles so far.

One of the main reasons I got the sport nav+ was the premium sound system. I was very happy with my sound quality until recently, especially since I got a premium spotify membership that means I get the best audio quality available (Apple CarPlay).

More recently, I started hearing a thumping noise from the driver's door speaker. For the record, not all songs do it, you can have a song with a lot of bass and it would play just fine at any volume, but some frequencies cause the front door to vibrate quite a lot, distorting the sound. I thought the sound comes from the speaker, but it's in fact right next to my ear, so the top part of the door. I read something about the windows having something to do with it, but it sounded unlikely. To my surprise, I noticed that both front windows "squeeze" the door trim when I close them. They literally pull the door trim towards the door, making a bit of a squeaky sound. There seems to be too much tension on the motor driving the window.

As a result, the entire door assembly becomes extremely tight and can't handle the sound frequencies/vibrations, creating that noise you'd expect from a 20 year old thrashed vauxhall. If I release the tension by lowering the window a fraction of an inch (window still closed, but tension is released), the sound improves. Still not 100%, but barely noticeable. In other words, here is the problem:

  • Nearly new sport nav+ bought Dec 2019, less than 10k miles
  • Good quality audi from premium music service via Apple CarPlay
  • Extensive tension on both front door trims when windows are in closed position
  • Thumping sounds from door trim AND speaker, distorting sounds

I never had to rely on Mazda for repairs and I was hoping not to ever have to, given it's the most reliable brand in the world. I'd like to get this sorted, I don't think it's acceptable for such a car, regardless of how little I paid for it, to have these issues, not after 1 year anyway. They're trying to enter the premium market, they need to deliver.

How do I approach the dealer to look at BOTH the door problem and the speaker issue and how do I make sure this is not brushed off with a "listen to something else" or "turn the volume down" solution? Also, my dealer is a bit far from home, can I get my warranty sorted at any other official Mazda dealer?

Thanks all!
« Last Edit: January 23, 2021, 09:38:09 am by cwolf89 »

Offline apav

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Re: Advice - 2019 6 Sport Nav+ - BOSE problems - thumping
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2021, 07:36:17 am »
Is there any case you bought a car with known faults and they gave you a discount for it? These cars are sold for £19k brand new or £18k brand new but registered. They were also giving £6k discount for a scrappage scheme but that could be for the full price which currently sits at £25k. There were brand new cars advertised at £15k at some point.

Do you know if you have warranty? If your warranty is valid, you can inspect the car for free at any dealer. A dealer may not find a problem, but you can have another inspection to another dealer. Maybe you can keep doing that if you do not mention that somebody has checked the car already but just state that you have some concerns that you would like to check under warranty.

If one of the speakers makes funny noises, it can be faulty. Something like that can easily be replaced under warranty. Whether the dealer can hear or not, is a tricky thing that depends on the morals of the dealer. You just hope that somebody will notice the difference and fix it by potentially replacing the speaker.

However, if you go to the dealer, and if the dealer says that you need a new speaker somewhere to be replaced, keep in mind that cars are put together by robots and they are not designed to be taken apart. So if an eager dealer is happy to start removing fragile trims to replace a faulty speaker, you may end up with a visibly damaged car that may not have any speaker problems anymore but it may have plastic trim problems.

It sounds that there is something wrong with the speakers and that bothers you. If you have warranty, you need to discuss it with the dealer. If they suggest replacing the speaker, ask them to show you what they are going to do, e.g. remove this and that plastic trim, and take photos of the trims they are going to remove before they do any work. Then let them remove the trims to access the speaker and check the condition of the trims when they deliver the car. Keep in mind, that even if the trims look fine, underneath they have damaged the insultation, forgot to fit screws, etc.

You need to balance how much you care about the sound quality versus a potential headache dealing with the dealer. If you own the car and want to keep it over long period, consider whether the originality of the trims is better than the audio quality. Ask whether a radio station audio sound listened by an average person would be noticed as problematic. If that is the case, then yes you have a problem and something could be done for it, but thre is a huge potential for adventure.

The window issue is a feature of these cars. It was a huge thing when they were first released and a lot of people just part exchanged them for a premium car. There were a lot of adjustments to the rubbers around the window and the door but people who could notice the noise, were not convinced. There is a good chance that you can hear better than the average person and that is why you notice the problems with the audio and the window.

Again you can ask the dealer to check it and let them do the usual inspections. But again, there is potential to cause further damage and achieve no result. People who could hear the noise, never found a solution. Others, were saying that it was completely quiet. The best way to check how bad it is, is to drive a better car. Then going back to your car, you will be able to compare the noise levels.

So in summary, if you have warranty, any dealer can inspect the car and do work for free. After this work, the car as a whole may turn up to be better or worse. It is a bit of a gamble. It is more likely than not, that nothing will improve.

If you decide to check the noise, ask them to check the vibrations and the clutch. The vibrations can add up and cause noise problems. But once you mention the clutch, you are in the danger zone of being told that the car has been used, there were no problems at the start, and all that is expected after 10k miles. There are other posts of similar problems with the clutch and the gears and the dealer never found any problem.

My guess is that this is how this particular car is. It has some noise problems from audio, vibration and window, and something is going on with the clutch. It is more likely that these will not get any worse and you will have to learn to live around them.

Offline cwolf89

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Re: Advice - 2019 6 Sport Nav+ - BOSE problems - thumping
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2021, 04:42:07 pm »
Let me start by thanking you for taking the time to write such a detailed reply, much appreciated.

First, a couple of answers:

Is there any case you bought a car with known faults and they gave you a discount for it? These cars are sold for £19k brand new or £18k brand new but registered. They were also giving £6k discount for a scrappage scheme but that could be for the full price which currently sits at £25k. There were brand new cars advertised at £15k at some point.

I don't think so, though the price sounds familiar. First, it was brand new and I requested the dealer to keep ALL the plastics on the car, including the ones on the alloys. Even the japanese delivery label was still in the windscreen, so the car was literally brand new (2 miles). Second, I have chosen my own colour after going back and forth about it and there was no attempt to make me go for a specific colour. What are the odds they would have a faulty car in every colour waiting around? Third, I haven't been told anything and I suspect this would be heavily illegal. I can't imagine a dealer would be able to sell something that's known to be faulty without at least mentioning it. Also, where would the fault come from? It's brand new, after all, it wouldn't pass quality control in the factory if it had an issue of any kind.

Do you have more information about this thing? I'd like to to do some more reading on it, please.

Do you know if you have warranty? If your warranty is valid, you can inspect the car for free at any dealer. A dealer may not find a problem, but you can have another inspection to another dealer. Maybe you can keep doing that if you do not mention that somebody has checked the car already but just state that you have some concerns that you would like to check under warranty.

Yes, the car has full warranty for another two years, so that's set. Are inspections under warranty really free or is it a case that if the dealer refuses to acknowledge the problem or decides it's not worth dealing with I have to pay? The things I mentioned are there, clear as daylight, easily reproducible, it's more a case of them saying "this is how they all are" and asking me to pay for hours of "investigating".

However, if you go to the dealer, and if the dealer says that you need a new speaker somewhere to be replaced, keep in mind that cars are put together by robots and they are not designed to be taken apart. So if an eager dealer is happy to start removing fragile trims to replace a faulty speaker, you may end up with a visibly damaged car that may not have any speaker problems anymore but it may have plastic trim problems.

Unfortunately I'm more than familiar with taking cars apart, car guy here :). I know exactly what you're talking about and I'd probably get rid of the car if they fixed the issue but created another problem with the trim in the process. The most annoying thing in a car is weird noises from some plastic, for me that's a reason to get rid of the car straight away, even if it means making a loss.

The window issue is a feature of these cars. It was a huge thing when they were first released and a lot of people just part exchanged them for a premium car. There were a lot of adjustments to the rubbers around the window and the door but people who could notice the noise, were not convinced. There is a good chance that you can hear better than the average person and that is why you notice the problems with the audio and the window.

Not sure I understand your point here, are you saying there is a documented issue relating to the windows? If so, where can I read more about this again? I'm not sure what "feature" we're talking about, unless a window crane like you would find on an '87 Lada is something to be proud of. Those adjustments, can they be made under warranty and is there a chance they would help?

Having said that, I am extremely disappointed, especially after reading your reply. I tried really hard to become a Mazda fan, deciding to switch from Audi to Mazda after hearing about how good Mazda is lately and how their interiors are simply amazing, not to mention the reliability of the car overall. Unfortunately, I'm left thinking that it's nothing more but a glorified Vauxhall or Hyundai. The "premium" sound is not in fact premium, if it has problems after just 12 months. The power train is not that clever, nor is their SkyActiv platform, if a Dacia has less vibrations in the cabin. And that interior might look nice on the surface of it, but once you start looking at it in detail, it becomes clear that my 13 years old Audi with nearly 200k miles on the clock was a few notches above. Combine that with a price tag that sometimes exceeds a similar Mercedes or Volvo, true premium brands, and you start to wonder what the whole hype around Mazda is.

Shame really, as it did have potential and I was really hoping they are indeed trying to become a premium car maker. Instead, it seems they charge premium prices for just under average build quality.

Let's see how they handle the problem, that might save them, otherwise I'll probably change the car. That low price means I'm already in positive equity, especially lately with second hand prices going up.

Thanks!

Offline saddler5

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Re: Advice - 2019 6 Sport Nav+ - BOSE problems - thumping
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2021, 12:48:11 pm »
cwolf89, I hope you get things sorted under warranty. I have exactly the same car as you but haven't had these problems

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Re: Advice - 2019 6 Sport Nav+ - BOSE problems - thumping
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2021, 03:00:56 pm »
I was just curious when you said peanuts price compared to what they became as £15K on auto trader for a brief period of time. So I thought that it may had some problem like a mini accident repaired before delivery or it was the show room car. I am not sure how the laws are applied anymore as it is flexible. I went to do the airbag/seat/hatch recalls and the airbag warning came on, the seat is unstable and the hatch leaks water and there is nothing preventing the dealer saying "so what, take me to the court". I think the laws nowadays are like speeding, if you are not caught, you were not speeding.

As you have warranty, go for it as you say the problem is pretty obvious. Try the most convenient dealer and then see how it goes. Maybe you will get a second chance if the first cannot do it. If I was you, I would approach the dealer with the expectation to break something. That is how I approached the safety recalls, my dash is out of alignment, the bodywork is bent around the hatch struts, all sorts of trims are broken, but I thought all that was worthy in order to get a safer car. I ended up with a worse car. So I would not try to rectify something like the audio sound unless there was no sound at all. That is just me.

When the third generation car was introduced, everybody started complaining about wind noise. There is tons to read online:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=mazda+6+road+noise+problem

It seems that the window was not secure in the door while others had problems with the rubber seal around the door. Well the dealers tried everything but nothing changed. No matter what model year you buy, the noise is there for some cars but not for others. The dealer is quite likely to have heard of the problem from other complaints but whether he will actually hear the problem in your car, depends on whether he can fix it. I think that is how I got trapped with the recall faults. They cannot fix the car and so it does not appear to be faulty.

I do not think it is worthy becoming a fan of any company. A company may treats you well and sell you a good product that will not cause headaches on no end or you may get lucky and have no problems. Nowadays it is more about the customer service and what is done when you have problems. A lot of people choose not to buy a specific brand anymore after some dealer treated them badly. I have asked the official Mazda to inspect my car and they are not doing it because it is not cost effective. They are happy to risk a customer in the name of profit.

I do not think Mazda was ever a premium brand. They look nice on the showroom but this is why the showrooms are fancy. It is just a normal car. The first generation of 6 did rust repairs under warranty. The second generation 6 was changing timing chains under warranty. The third generation 6 was doing engine repairs under warranty. The whole problem with modern cars is that they last until their warranty expires. Then it is a gamble as most garages cannot fix them.

The other thing is that better quality of materials cannot really cover the build in problems of a car. For example a supermini with premium plastics will not drive any better than a normal segment D car. I have been as a passenger to a C30 and a first generation BMW1, but they did not feel or sound any different than a normal car. Cars are to be driven and if a car suits your trips, you go for it.

I would not trust the high sale prices to guarantee a high part exchange price but until you try, you will never know. You can buy an almost new segment E car for the same money as a Mazda 6 but I think the German cars will have much difference in the feel than the 6. On the other, it is more likely than not, that they will also cost you more on the long run but this is life.

Offline cwolf89

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Re: Advice - 2019 6 Sport Nav+ - BOSE problems - thumping
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2021, 07:39:46 pm »
Took it to a dealer, problem acknowledged, but they don’t recognise it as a manufacturing problem, despite clear evidence that it’s the same problem in both front doors, same symptoms etc. ... in order words, they want money to sort it, something I’ll never do. Luckily the car is on finance, so I’ll attempt to fix it myself, I’ll give it back asap anyway.

So much for a “premium” brand, I really regret buying this mediocre car. The cabin vibrates at idle, the doors rattle, the clutch pedal squeaks and the gearbox is notchy to the point I struggle to put it in gear (1st, 5th and 6th). How someone can even call this premium is beyond my understanding, but then again I fell for it too!

Luckily I negotiated a good price and can sell asap without making a loss. You can get a larger Volvo or Audi for less than a Mazda, so no point dealing with wannabe premium brands.

Don’t believe the hype, Mazda was never more than a budget brand, despite charging premium prices lately!

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Re: Advice - 2019 6 Sport Nav+ - BOSE problems - thumping
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2021, 03:35:31 pm »
Is this about the speakers or the windows? Did they tell you what the problem is and how they are going to fix it?

Whatever they quote as a repair, it will be expensive because it is a dealer price.

If you are going to return the car soon, consider not trying to fix anything. The finance people will use a magnifying glass to go over the car before collecting it. So if something breaks, you are going to be charged. Just try to be patient until you return the car.

Mazda was never a premium brand and I do not think anyone bought these cars as being premium. Most people tried to finance a bigger Audi, BMW, Mercedes, from segment E, they realised that if they tick any boxes, the finance will double, and so they shopped around and ended up with a normal segment D car.

All of these cars are quite similar as they are built to a cost. They look, do not cost a lot to finance, and so a lot of people leased them for a bit until they moved to the next car. The Mazda 6 is now 8 years in the market and so the more modern cars in the segment, should be better than it in terms of material quality like noise. Noise is something that you can quantify and so you drive various cars and you make your conclusions.

Whatever you get next, check the prices on Auto Trader. A Mazda 6 is £25K on the Mazda website while it is £20K on the Auto Trader. That is 20% discount for a brand new car. When they discount the cars that much and turn out to a cheap monthly lease, people will buy them regardless of all their problems.

Then consider that 2020 demo cars sell for £18K and 2019 used cars for £12K. This is less than half the sticker price in less than 2 years of ownership and the price includes the profit of the trader.

2018 cars sell for £9K which is just above the one third of the original price. You can imagine what was happening before the pandemic bubble. That is why people treat them as disposable.

Offline cwolf89

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Re: Advice - 2019 6 Sport Nav+ - BOSE problems - thumping
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2021, 06:54:20 pm »
The problem is the door trim (panel), basically it’s not put together properly or Mazda is saving peanuts on a tie wrap, tape and other things that don’t save them anything. As a result, some components inside the door might rattle. Low build wuality, rudimentar quality control. Dealer wants money to just have a look, but they can’t say how much.

I can easily fix it myself, I removed trims before or worked on timing belts on diesel engines, not afraid of this and I know what I’m doing.

As for your remark on Mazda not being a premium brand or people not buying them for that, I respectfully disagree. Yes, you can’t fool me (anymore) that Mazda is premium, but this is the image and strategy they follow and these are the prices they charge. Search “mazda premium” on google and you will find hundreds of websites saying the same thing based on what the CEO of Mazda has said: they are positioning themselves as a premium brand because they can’t compete on volume, hence thr only way to make a profit is to charge more.

The only problem is, you don’t build a premium brand by calling yourself premium or by charging premium prices. Too much at fault with that bloody car, not worth more than a yaris unfortunately...

How could I have been so blind? Anyone looking for a cheap 2019 (sport nav+) 6?

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Re: Advice - 2019 6 Sport Nav+ - BOSE problems - thumping
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2021, 03:48:23 pm »
I have the second generation car. After a 7 attempts of the garage to put right the brakes works he did, something ended rattling in the door when circumstances are right. He damaged the brakes and the door. I do not feel that these cars take a lot of abuse.

Currently I have problems with the airbags. The official position of the Mazda England, for the recalls they have bought from Mazda Germany, is that there is no auditing. The trader decides the quality. When this is their business plan, you realise that there is no auditing at the factory as well.

I would not open that door if I was to return the car. If I would live with the car for ever, I would not consider it unless it was getting too much.

Have you been in a Toyota or Subaru car? They feel solid, like a rock solid. I do not mean not making noises, but also not feeling that it is empty.

On the other hand, I have the impression that all modern cars are well made. The problem is that if you change them quite often, you have more chances of buying something that is not perfect. But then it is only for a short period of time.

I googled mazda premium and it suggested to have the brand as well next to it. It is as I thought. It is just a normal car. I believe nothing of the sellers' flattery.

The price they charge is the same as any other car. I say that from the Auto Trader prices. You can buy any segment D car and all of them are around the same price of £20K

But nobody pays £20K to buy a car. These cars sell on finance. So these cars are just bangers for a few hundred quid. You lease them for a period shorter than the warranty and you upgrade them. Basically they are a bus you can park at home.

If people want to buy premium, they buy an A4/3/C Class and pay maybe £5-£10 more per week on the lease. These cars have now the same wheelbase as the segment D cars but still feel a bit small inside.

I just check the Auto Trader. 20 plate Mazda 6 with 50 miles on the close is for sale for £17,500. I think this is the real price of these cars. For me the bigger obstacle of buying such new car would be the maintenance. I cannot deal with traders anymore doing banter vandalising the car. So I would buy a higher mileage older car for 1/3 of that price and go less crazy when the car is bodged.

The other challenge here is that with £17,500 you can buy a 2018 BMW 5 or any other similar German segment E car. And I feel that these cars would be much better made than the Mazda. No idea how much it would cost to maintain a more complicated car though, plus imagine the level of bodging that is about to happen to such a thing if you take it to the MOT garage down the road.

Anyway, it upset you but you were never going to keep it for ever. When it is safe to go out and go car shopping, try cars from the segment above Audi A6, BMW5, Mercedes E. Then go back to Insignia, 508, Passat, Superb and decide whether the £50 or so extra on finance per month is worthy.

Offline cwolf89

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Re: Advice - 2019 6 Sport Nav+ - BOSE problems - thumping
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2021, 07:24:18 am »
There’s a difference between a base model (no “premium” sound, no leather, no powerful petrol engine, no many dozens of things) and a more expensive trim. You can’t buy a 2020 6 sport for £17500.

But I think the point is that a new car, especially from a brand that’s trying to snatch a small slice of premium market share, should not rattle. I expect a vauxhall corsa with a dodgy history to rattle after 5 years, not a mazda 6 after 9 months...

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Re: Advice - 2019 6 Sport Nav+ - BOSE problems - thumping
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2021, 08:15:05 am »
If you read older posts, somebody had bought a 6 for more than £30K and had quality concerns and worries like you do. The point I try to make is that Mazda makes its profit from the trims.

The basic car is £17,500. The rest are just decor. You can pay double the base price but you still have the same car with the same design faults.

I do not think that the trim will make any difference in the driving. Because we buy cars to drive them. The extra trim cannot make any difference to the driving experience. That is my opinion.

Yes I agree with you that a new car should not rattle but they do. That is why some of them they sell at lower price to compensate for such quality problems.

My understanding of the premium and the cost is different. I feel that nowadays only a handful of people buy cash and even fewer buy and not lease. So when you involve finance the game is played on the monthly repayment.

You are ads dealer contribution £6K. With £6K you can buy and own a decent used car or an almost new smaller car. All the tricks they do with the finance is to reduce the monthly repayment.

You can lease German cars cheaper than normal cars. This does not make any sense because the German cars cost more in cash than the rest of the cars. So people go through your experience and sooner or late they buy German.

The monthly cost is the most important factor here. When the pandemic eases, go back to dealer and get in various brand new cars. The more expensive the car, the better it will feel.

But when it comes to the monthly repayment, that is irrelevant to the tag price and the quality. It is all defined by the banks.

Overall if you read about Mazda cars, their major problems are the engines. The rest of the problems are not that important when you do not have an engine to drive.

But as long as you have finance, you will have a car. The finance company will fix or replace the car. And as it is a capitalist market, the more drivers do not choose Mazda, the more chances are for Mazda to try something different next time.

As you experienced, Mazda is not interested in tiny details like rattles. Their minds are in the big picture, i.e. how much they will pocket at the end of the month.

Offline cwolf89

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Re: Advice - 2019 6 Sport Nav+ - BOSE problems - thumping
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2021, 08:06:08 pm »
I’m sorry and I don’t want to come across as rude, you’ve tried to help after all, but there are so many mistakes in your answer, it’s incredible. I won’t answer now, it’s late and the kids need tucking in, but I’ll definitely address some of your misconceptions tomorrow!

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Re: Advice - 2019 6 Sport Nav+ - BOSE problems - thumping
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2021, 10:40:11 am »
OK sorry. I did not mean anything bad. Maybe I am affected after I lost trust to Mazda when they vandalised my car during safety recalls. But also because I do not believe in the concept of a buying a new car, or the distinction between normal and premium cars. For me the car is about going places. When the car cannot do that, there is a problem.

I take for granted that all cars develop problems. But I could not accept the man-made problems of the vandalisms for recalls that were supposed to address the inherited safety problems. Whether some trim is making some or not, is not something that I can assess because I never bought a new car.

I think cars nowadays may have such problems because of the mentality that they are disposable. So people consider these problems as part of the giggles culture. But substantially Mazda cannot be trusted either their product design (see engine problems for example) or their customer service (operate based on the franchise model, i.e. the trader is always right to express an opinion because Mazda does not have one).

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Re: Advice - 2019 6 Sport Nav+ - BOSE problems - thumping
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2021, 09:26:02 pm »
> cwolf89     &   apav

I am stepping in here as I don't want to allow this conversation to get into a personal slanging match.   We all have to accept that members have their personal views and whilst the majority of the time these do not cause offence, sometimes they hit a nerve. 
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but please do not allow this to cause aggravation on the forum.  I will not hesitate to take action if this gets out of hand. 

Thank you
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