Mazda 6 Forums UK

General Category => Consumer Reviews => Topic started by: PanPilot on August 19, 2016, 01:52:06 pm

Title: Nice car, but....
Post by: PanPilot on August 19, 2016, 01:52:06 pm
All I can say is, welcome to the Mazda Rubbish Paint Club. I bought 2014 Mazda 6 Sport Nav in dark blue. What a mistake...
 I have had very many cars over the last four decades, and have NEVER had a car with such poor paint. The colour coat is about as thick as a cigarette paper - probably not even that - and of course, the primer underneath (why is it always white?) shows with every tiny nick. The front end has literally dozens at 18 months and 18,000 miles, some of which show signs of rust. So the weekly routine is hand-wash with a soft fleece, minutely inspect for new chips, and touch them in. Worse, I have four tiny chips on the roof, two which now have rust tracking under the paint, the other two are beginning to rust. How does a flat, horizontal panel get stone chips, for goodness sake?
I'm convinced that if a butterfly walked across the paint it would leave footprints. I would never dare use an auto car wash!
Mazda don't want to know, other than the dealer selling me a paint touch-in kit. So much for paint warranties!
 It's a very great shame, the car is well equipped, comfortable, quiet, and excellent to drive, but BADLY, no, make that VERY BADLY let down by the paint finish. Not good - it's not a cheap car.
And it's not just me, a friend has similar problems with an MX-5. Contrast this with my hack, a Golf which at eleven years and 160,000 miles has six stone chips - I just counted - and no rust.
Mazda? Never again. :(
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: 678hug on August 20, 2016, 03:47:08 pm
Much as i love my Mazda 6, i have to agree. I see that things haven't improved since i purchased my 2009 model.

Had it washed and waxed last week.  I thought that they hadn't rubbed the wax off properly until i tried to do it and realised they were stone chips. I reckon 200 of them on the bumper and bonnet. Also got a few just above the windscreen which have turned into rust spots.

I have done 140 000 motorway miles so i do expect a fair few chips, but this was way in excess of what i would expect and way more than any other car i have owned.

I think i'll leave it dirty. Doesn't show up as much.
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: PanPilot on August 22, 2016, 07:26:36 am
 I little search of the web for something like 'Mazda paint problem' shows it's common. I just wish I had done it before I bought the car. Hindsight, and all that.
 I have had a much closer look at the roof under a magnifier, there are tiny pin-pricks in several places which appear to be the beginnings of blistering. These are even at the back of the roof, which is sloping down at this point, so should *never* suffer stone chips. The car has only been on the road for 18 months!
 This is a very serious issue. Once the top coat is compromised, it is very obvious that the primer coat allows moisture to permeate through and begin corrosion. Like a lot of cars, the panels are thin in the drive to save weight, and I suspect it's not going to take long to penetrate; and penetration from the outside is not covered under the anti-perforation warranty.
 I expect a lot of rusty Mazdas in the next few years... maybe meeting a premature end.
 Mazda are playing a very dangerous game here. Anyone with a memory which reaches back to the 60's and 70's will remember that certain car makes had a woeful reputation for rust, and it take DECADES to get rid of that bad name.
 I have been told by someone who was in the trade, that the probable reason for all of this hassle is the move to water-based paints. As I understand it, this happened in stages, first the under layer(s) only, with two-pack lacquer topcoat which is hard, and still OK, but over the last few years the lacquer topcoat layer is now also water-based and not robust. It's not confined to Mazda. Can anyone confirm? Sounds like another win for the environmentalists...
 I am seriously thinking about contacting BBC Watchdog over this, but I need ammunition. Anyone else out there?
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: PanPilot on August 22, 2016, 07:47:48 am
 I've now gone from 'concerned' to 'very concerned'. The reason? - I just did a web search for the term 'Mazda rust'.
 Oh dear.
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: andywolfie on August 22, 2016, 05:38:35 pm
It's not good is it, but as you say a lot of manufacturers suffer from this, do a search on any makes makes with the word rust after is and it's shocking, my wife's VW polo which is a year old is suffering from this and currently trying to get them to cover it, after all the troubles VW has been having you would think they would be happy to help! NOT the case! As for my 2008 6, so far so good, a few stone chips here and there but nothing that stands out,

Andy
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: PanPilot on August 23, 2016, 09:08:28 am
 Hi Andy... from what I hear and read, the newer the car, the more likely it is to suffer the problem; see my previous post about the type of paint. It may be your '08 car doesn't have the water-based topcoat/ lacquer, so is tougher. If so, lucky you!
 It sounds like you aren't lucky with the VW though, so is this problem is going to be widespread throughout the industry generally? I presume the environmental regs apply to all. I read somewhere that manufacturers are using less and thinner paint, it's obviously a cost saving, but also in the drive to save weight too.
 There is another factor may be involved though, and that is galvanisation of the panels before painting (or maybe lack of). It was introduced years ago to counter this exact problem where moisture penetrates the paint layers. My 20-year-old Volvo had stone chips which were obviously down to bare metal, yet didn't rust. My old Rover did however, and I was told then it was because Rover galvanised the inside of the panels, but not the outside, the logic being that the outside had a protective paint layer, and galvanising costs money. I don't know the truth of it though.
 I think I'll go looking for an old Volvo...
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: bazzamf on August 23, 2016, 09:48:50 am
New cars are not designed to last forever and have never been, so it's something we have to live with. I think we need to accept that if we are getting more than 10 -12 years life then we are doing well.
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: PanPilot on August 23, 2016, 10:20:05 am
Well, that point is open to debate I guess. I appreciate that manufacturers have to sell cars, so there must be a finite life. But consider this:
My Golf, at eleven years and an awful lot more miles, has almost no corrosion. My Volvo, at twenty plus years old, had none even after 200,000 miles.
My Mazda, if this is not attended to promptly, will have several rusty patches by the time it is three years old. My guess is that a couple of years after that, it will have holes.
This is not progress!  We are heading for Lada territory here... and you remember the jokes about them.
The difference is, Ladas were half the price of a Ford Cortina at the time. A top-of-the-range Mazda 6 is listed at almost £30K.   
 The bottom line is that this is not acceptable whichever way you look at it. For the Mazda dealer to present me with a finger and tell me to put it somewhere warm is rubbing salt in the wound.
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: andywolfie on August 23, 2016, 08:21:08 pm
I can't understand the logic with these manufacturers, how bad an advert is it to have one of their cars rusting after a couple of years? You would think they would want to fix this, surprised at Mazda as they always do well in surveys, I bet that will change in years to come,

Andy
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: 678hug on August 25, 2016, 04:17:45 pm
Not sure how i've ended up with quite so many, but beleive it or not, these are all chips in the paintwork.
The car will be at the end of its life in a couple of years so i won't be losing any sleep over it.
  (http://img257.imagevenue.com/loc30/th_144459298_IMG_0629_122_30lo.JPG) (http://img257.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=144459298_IMG_0629_122_30lo.JPG) (http://img175.imagevenue.com/loc523/th_144463312_IMG_0630_122_523lo.JPG) (http://img175.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=144463312_IMG_0630_122_523lo.JPG) (http://img247.imagevenue.com/loc128/th_214446763_IMG_0631_122_128lo.JPG) (http://img247.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=214446763_IMG_0631_122_128lo.JPG)
(http://img101.imagevenue.com/loc175/th_144471237_IMG_0632_122_175lo.JPG) (http://img101.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=144471237_IMG_0632_122_175lo.JPG)
     
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: bazzamf on August 26, 2016, 01:37:08 pm
If I'm interpreting the pictures correctly, I think you will find that all the bits shown are made of plastic, so no fear of rust there.
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: PanPilot on August 27, 2016, 07:18:56 am
 You know, I frequently think that car manufacturers have lost the plot, and are ignoring the basics, like build quality. In a couple of years you will be able to get in your car, have a nice chat with the girl in your satnav and ask her to find your nearest Tesco, then press a button and your electronically-stable, electronically-braked car, with its electronically-controlled engine and electronically-controlled gearbox, will electronically steer round the neighbour's pussycat to drive you there, while you read today's news on the screen on the dash. When it gets there it will self-park amongst all the other rusty cars. Mind you, non of them will be more than five years old; beyond that you won't be able to afford to fix them.
 Oh, I get it now... you will have to go out and buy a new one. Brilliant!
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: 678hug on August 27, 2016, 07:26:04 am
If I'm interpreting the pictures correctly, I think you will find that all the bits shown are made of plastic, so no fear of rust there.

Sorry about the pictures being sideways, They were the right way up when i posted them.
There are chips on the plastic bumper but there are also chips on the metal wings and bonnet but thankfully no rust.
The only ones i have with rust are above the windscreen but i didn't post a photo of those.
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: PanPilot on August 27, 2016, 07:41:45 am
 It's worth a quick look at the forums for the other Mazda models (the links are right at the top of the page).
M3 forum: "I've notice on mine that the paint chips so easily. My car is only 9 months old but I've got so many stone chips I can't believe."
M2 forum: "After washing it today I have noticed some paint corrosion on my bonnet! And patched where it looks like it will start peeling away!"

 I feel better now I'm not the only one.
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: JerryB on September 03, 2016, 11:31:17 am
Wow! you guys are certainly putting me off having another Mazda.  My 2002 6 had to have one of the jacking points welded this year.  It has major rust bubbles on the wheel arches, tailgate edge and door edges. To be fair it has an uncertain history and I suspect it was damaged before I got it.
Oddly it doesn't have much in the way of paint chips on the front.
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: bazzamf on September 03, 2016, 11:59:46 am
My previous first generation 6, which I had from new, had the same rust issues, which began to show after about 6 years. I now have a second generation car which is just over six years old and no rust issues so far. Because this car is black, I have tended to use the waterless car cleaning products, which I think has helped to protect the bodywork.
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: slavikost on September 12, 2016, 12:56:59 am
My Mazda is exactly the same dark blue colour like the car on the photos few posts above and I think my stone chips are even more.We all know Japanese people are very smart-why is so difficult for them to use the same colour primer under the paint coat.You don`t have to be genius to figure it out.
Roof is not so bad as the bonnet but many spots as well.And I don`t know why but on the roof they are bigger and most of them rusty.How the stones from the road are not damaging the windscreen but just the roof after it is completely mystery for me as well.The car is now around 115 000 miles but even for these miles this is toooo much white on the dark surface.I have never owned car with rubbish paint like this.When I sold my previous car(it was 12 years old Renault Laguna with 125000 miles on the clock)the paint was with 0 stone chips.I still have the photos from the selling advert.It only had a little bit pealing of the clear coat around the front door handles(but virtually invisible if I dont point your attention at that spot).
 I love my mazda and everybody can agree it is beautiful car.But because of this white spots it is true that if the car is dirty is more pleasant for the eye.I am really thinking to paint the whole car.
I like the facelift  of third generation(2015-2016) but just because of problematic paint I dont think I will go for it.Or compromise and buy white car????
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: PanPilot on September 20, 2016, 07:53:52 am
 White and rust don't go together... not on cars anyway. Perhaps you should consider a sort of orangey-brown!

 I urge everyone to look very closely - and I mean VERY closely, get the step ladders out - for stone chips on the roof. I have just found two more tiny chips with rusty centres, and signs of rust tracking under the paint (it looks like fine threads, or strands of a cobweb; which is why it's sometimes called spidering). If you find any, tackle them *now*, don't delay. Once a rust particle gets under the paint, it brings all of its friends to the party!

 I have been given a useful tip from a guy who does stone chips for a living.
First get yourself a touch-in kit from Mazda, they are only about a fiver, they seem to sell a lot for some reason.
Get some strong cheapex reading specs, you will do a better job. (I use +4.0, £3.99 from the supermarket).
Make sure it is absolutely bone dry before you start, if necessary use the wife's hairdryer on its lowest setting to gently warm the area first.
Now tear the corners off a sheet of kitchen roll to make triangles about 70mm, twisted to a fine point, and use that instead of a brush. Pick up a small amount of paint on the pointed end, and 'dot' paint into the chip, slowly working around the edges inwards to the centre. Take your time and avoid the temptation to put too much paint on in one go, but be careful not to leave any pinholes. You may have to return to it after an hour or two and fill in a bit. The more care you take, the less obvious the repair will be.

It works a treat. Shame I have to do it so frequently, though...
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: mareng73 on March 08, 2017, 10:35:21 am
If the change to waterbased paints was because of the greens pressure,  what about the energy required to build  a new car, scrap a nearly new one  and  the oil used for all the new plastic parts. It doesn't really add up.  Global warming is a load of tosh,  the world has been going through this thermal cycle since it came out the big bang, it is just a big stick that gvts can use  to control the masses with fear.
Build a car to last, reduce the output of car factories , channel the labour into other manufacturing . Perhaps shareholders of car manufacturers should not be so  greedy.
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: ColinB on March 08, 2017, 09:23:11 pm
I believe that the change to waterbased paints was to reduce the volatiles in the solvents. The same reasoning has been applied to domestic paints which is why they are now all 'quick dry' but never get really hard and so are less durable with a poorer finish than traditional paints. So with cars, the old cellulose finish would have shrugged off stone chip strikes which now dig holes into the thinner softer paint and provide the opportunity for rust to develop. It is called progress I think.
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: Willpower on March 08, 2017, 10:11:53 pm
I believe that weight conservation was also an element towards the change of paint materials from cellulose to water based.
An average family car was hauling around about 25-30 lbs. of paint weight. Whereas with the e-coat, primer, light filler (if any), two base coats, and the standard 3 clear coats you end up between 6-15 lbs, a considerable reduction.

Further consideration included a reduction in costs for water based paint and ease of application. Taken with the environment aspect (lack of solvents), then  to the Mazda exec's it must have been a no brainer to change over.
The problem with any step change like this is the lack of data regarding longevity and FW&T.   But Mazda are not the only company to go this route. I understand from acquaintances that Fiat and Renault cars also suffer the same problems. 
Title: Re: Nice car, but....
Post by: PanPilot on March 21, 2017, 07:12:02 am
 Yes, I suspect you're right in saying it's not just a Mazda problem. I was passing the coachworks recently, so on a whim I dropped in to ask advice about the rust spots. To paraphrase what I was told: " Oh, that's not bad... I would expect your typical Audi or BMW to be worse at this mileage. We do a lot of them...". The guy implied the difference is that they cover at least part of the cost, unlike Mazda.